The Sorcerer's World

Was having a conversation with a couple of friends on chat last night and we got around to talking about predilections. These are just a couple of the comments that came out of the discussion.
MM

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A predilection isn't the same thing as a compulsion. I have a predilection to be a moody prick but if I indulge that compulsion then all I am is a moody prick, a slave to the dictates of my biological bent. The main point don Juan wanted to make about predilections is that they exist. Don Juan's predilection was to laugh, so there was no particular harm in indulging that one. But he knew Carlos's predilection was to be maudlin & melancholy, so he was always cautioning Carlos NOT to indulge that predilection because to do so was unhealthy for Carlos and everybody around him. Predilections are to be recognized and accepted, yes, but to indulge them is to admit one isn't strong enough to make a choice that goes against their animal leanings. Indulgence is just another form of slavery no matter how you label it. (Dan)

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It's important to recognize our predilections - to have an awareness. But if we stop there and just live down to our lowest common denominator animal instincts, we have failed our commitment to our own impeccability. Some kids have a predilection to be lazy, but if the parents just accept that and do nothing to change it, then the predilection is enforced and the kid grows up to be a lazy adult. Where's the growth or evolution in that? Some people have a predilection to be angry or cruel or even perverse, but the question is whether we choose to act on our predilections or use our awareness to make a more impeccable choice. To just blindly accept our predilections is to live down to the lowest common denominator of hormones & programming and all the ingredients that make us human. Rising above our predilections is one of the first steps toward becoming other-than-human. (Della)

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A lot more came out of the discussion but these two bits really jumped out at me, so I thought I'd share them in case anybody else may want to offer any discussion.

MM

Mel...

I'm glad you posted this, but I'm afraid it will fall on deaf ears - as most stuff on forums tends to do. What I've observed over the past 8 years of hosting forums is that most folks have already pre-determined what they are going to believe, what they are going to do, and whether or not they have any intention of changing (i.e., evolving beyond their base-biological urges). Most are, unfortunately, stuck in habitual patterns of behaviour which are determined either by their gonads, their addictions, or both. Ouch. Ugly truth. I'll get hate mail for that one. They will use their predilections, their gonads, their addictions and their anger-management problems to justify almost any sort of lowest common demoninator thinking and lowest common denominator behaviour. They will tell you things like, "I'm just predisposed to be an asshole, and don Juan said it's okay." The reality, of course, is that don Juan said no such thing, but they would never consider allowing reason to sway them from their beliefs, because those beliefs validate their existing comfort zones and give them a good excuse to go right on being an asshole. *LOL*

It starts to remind me of Bible thumpers - using all manner of "scripture" to back up their belief systems. They might thump on the works of Castaneda or Jed McKenna or their own personal guru (i.e., martial arts teachers, yoga teachers, spiritual coaches & the like - ALL of whom are being well-paid by these individuals to expound "truth") to justify whatever it is they want to justify - just as many xtians thump on the Bible and use it to validate their belief that God wants them to hate gays, for example, or that women should be kept barefoot & pregnant. Reason never enters into it. Not for a single moment.

So when I look at the tirades and the scripture thumping that goes on, all I can do is stand aside and be sadly amazed and ruthlessly amused at the utter lack of understanding these folks have about their (so-called) spirituality. Spirituality on ANY level isn't about using your predilections to hammer or hurt someone else. It isn't about pointing the finger at your guru and blaming him for your failure, when the only one who can fail or succeed is the one in your mirror.

There's a big hooplah these days from people who are FINALLY figuring out that their greatest teacher is themselves - but in doing so, they are quick to blame and demonize their former teachers (who have been telling them from the start that their greatest teacher is themselves). Amazing, frankly. I've had that fickle finger of blame pointed at myself a few times in the past year, and it always comes down to one thing. I can honestly say from my own heart that I have NEVER sought followers - too high maintenance and frankly, what purpose would they serve? And, in fact, when a few have TRIED to attach themselves to me, I have very directly told them I'm no guru, I don't have their answers, and I'm not their leader. Usually only pisses them off to hear this, but that's their problem, not mine. All I can do is share my path with them. If they learn from that, great.. If not, they are quite free to go seek their OWN way, which is what I have encouraged them to do from the beginning. I think hearing aids should be standard issue for anyone on a warrior's path, but that's just me exercising my predilection to be sarcastic.

I dunno, Mel. It just seems to me that the blame game is a very efficient way of transferring responsibility from self to someone else. ANYONE else! It's a way of saying, "You were holding me back!" when the blatant and obvious reality is that the only one who can hold you back is YOU! I've said it from the start. I've repeated it... oh... a few thousand times over the years. If you need a guru, if you worship any particular teacher, if you are dependent on "What would Michael or Dick or Jesus do?", then you are sadly attached to comfort zones, and like any addict, will do whatever it takes to go on feeding your addiction. If that means convincing yourself that your former teachers are actually blood-sucking vampires from the 9th level of Hell, that's what you'll do. If it means putting some "new" guru on a pedastal and worshipping his every word, then you have done nothing to break out of your attachments - you have only transferred them from one guru to another, and it is inevitable that you will turn on THAT guru in time as well.

Only when you can stand alone in the dark night of the soul, just you and your Death, will you finally be free. Until then - for as long as attachment to earthly teachers, or the validation of your peers remains of importance to you - you are just one more wayward crusader, rattling your saber for the right to go on being a wayward crusader. Chances are, you dont' even know what you're fighting for! You're just fighting because you've decided that's the way of the warrior, even though a TRUE warrior carries no weapon.

Being a warrior isn't about brandishing your sword at demons you've imagined or created. It isn't about thumping CC's books as some sort of warped validation to what you want to believe. It isn't about convincing yourself that you're already perfect, so therefore your work is finished. Instead, it's about standing alone in the world, in yourself, in the infinite. No one can do it for you. No teacher can take you there. No teacher can stop you from going there. You'll either do it or you won't. It will not make you popular. It will not earn you friends. It may even destroy you...

But that's the rub, isn't it? I've always loved that scene in STAR WARS, where Darth Vader and Obi Wan Kenobi stand face to face, light sabers crossing, after a long battle. When Obi Wan lowers his sword and surrenders to his death, his final words are, "You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

So the way I see it is simply this. If we have surrendered to our death, with the Knowledge that we have reached our totality, then the meager strikes of light sabers are insignificant, utterly inconsequential - just the sad battle fought by angry children who still believe there is something to 'win'.

We see the same kind of thing in psychological counseling at all levels, from group chat therapy to indepth psychoanalysis. It's how a patient absolves himself of any responsibility for his own treatment while simultaneously rationalizing his own behavior and self-creating a false foundation to support erroneous beliefs. Unscrupulous therapists may actually allow that kind of thing to go on in order to keep the patient dependent, but that's a whole different subject I won't go into right now. This is one reason I've felt from time to time that people on a spiritual path may really NEED a teacher, because it's too easy to attach one's own interpretation to the works of CC, e.g. and proceed to believe one's own conclusions, which are usually anything but accurate. A good teacher can keep the seeker's focus where it needs to be, just as a good therapist can direct the patient toward the positive aspects of treatment.



This is also something that occurs often in long term therapy. When a patient isn't progressing as he wants to progress with his thearpy, he often leaves his therapist and then proceeds to blame the therapist for his own failure, when the actuality is often that the patient has done nothing the therapist suggested, and has spent most of his 'couch time' arguing with the therapist about whether therapy is effective. Upon that occurrence, the patient then goes out and finds another therapist, only to begin the cycle over again. And you are correct when you say it's inevitable that the cycle will only repeat because nothing has changed except the focal point of the attachment. This is a daily occurrence in my field of work and I do not expect it will ever change.



Interesting parallels between the reluctant warrior and the resistant patient. To someone of this mindset, it's always about winning or losing or coming out on top of some imaginary heap. When I've asked patients what they think they are going to gain (win) by fighting with their therapist, their typical answer is to meekly shrug and mumble, "I dunno." That's just it. They want to change their lives but when it gets serious many are quick to turn their fears onto their teachers or therapists. It's how they maintain status quo, because NOTHING is more scary than moving past what we know of ourselves and into the terrain of infinite possibility. Getting someone past that kind of fear response is seldom possible. As you say, they either will or they won't. And from a therapist's perspective, I can tell you that most won't because that's just human nature. I'm fortunate to be in the kind of situation where I no longer have to work with patients who have decided that they are really only there to argue with their therapist. I used to think those were the ones who needed me most, but that was just my own self-importance, and I learned the value of being able to cut them loose and recommend them to some junior therapist who still holds the ideal belief that he can change the world one neurotic at a time. heh. Not a chance. So I now focus my energies on working with people who want to change and who are willing to do the work. The rest aren't worth my time or yours.

Hello,

I have been exploring the facts about predillections frrom my point of view. I have to say that so far I have not come up with much because I have never before made a connection between the word, predillection, and my behaviour.

I have a funny relashionship with coffee. Sometimes I enjoy it. A while ago I thought that it was bad for me and that it was ruining my teeth. So when I get the urge to have a coffee I realise straight away that it is a habit but I decide then that I actually enjoy the habit, thats indulging. This is sad because my body may not really want coffee, so I am just fullfilling habitual behaviour by choosing to choosing to indulge, although this becomes a new habit. The old habit was to have coffee, my new habit is to chose to act habitualy and write about it on sorcery forums.

Interestingly enough, I used to be a habitual smoker which I actually gave up in a similar sort of way. I reasoned that being a filthy addict flew right in the face of being a Warrior so I decided to that I needed to stop!

But I liked smoking, so I spent a few baffling, frustrating months trying to smoke only the ciggarettes that I particuarly enjoyed. I Suddenly found my self smoking less and less. My addictive behaviour gave way to a new way of smoking, a new habit?

Now I am free from addictive smoking behaviour, able to smoke when I really fancy it, which is not very often.

I suppose that I am on the same road with coffee. If I really like it, I'll feel like doing it once in a while, without craving, without addictive behaviour. So I think now of a predillection being some sort of behaviour that Is not habitual in nature because habits are so easily changed with a desire to do so.

Eurika! It just occured to me that I ommit some strange behaviour regrding the idea of people liking me. Its clear that I beleive deep down that I am unlikable. Is this a predillection. A deep beleife at the core of our being which underlines everything we do?

Hey, Dustin, good to hear from you!

Yes, the parallels are very interesting, aren't they? And I wholeheartedly agree with your closing statement: "So I now focus my energies on working with people who want to change and who are willing to do the work. The rest aren't worth my time or yours."

That's been a hard one for me, because my "predilection" (that word again) is to make long-lasting friendships and relationships. I had the same "best friend" from first grade through 9th grade, for example, and I've been with my life partner for almost 30 years - so I have this foolish notion that the connections we make along the way are somehow of value, when the reality of it - mainly with regard to 'friendships' formed on the net - is that most are like fast food: quickly consumed, seldom nutritious, and often prone to clog the arteries of perception. *LOL*

Another thing that came up on chat last night re this whole internet connection thing, was that Dan made the point that I've made before with regard to "fractionary vision" - meaning that the relationships we form over the net only allow us to see what the person on the other end WANTS us to see. So it's easy to pretend to be a zen master or an exemplary scholar or even a warrior, because it's all just words on paper, usually copied from some other source. Put another way, we see only a false presentation of most of these "reluctant warriors" (your term), and we really don't have any idea of their "true" identity at all. So, in that regard, you're very correct: they are a waste of my time and yet they have been a valuable asset for me to learn how to let go. So in that regard, I am grateful for the experience.

The amusing thing (because at this point one can ONLY be amused) is that I see that same little groups clinging with bloody fingertips to the same tired old rhetoric, struggling desperately to hold their world intact by drawing up 'sides' and creating lines in the sand and spending all day in chatrooms gossiping about anyone who isn't present at that moment. They thump on the dictionary and the books of CC and a variety of other scriptures, arguing for their right to believe what they want to believe... when the reality is that nobody is trying to stop them in the first place. When I was in grade school, it was called a clique - usually a group of little girls who spent more time whispering behind someone else's back than attending to their schoolwork. And, btw, those are the little girls who ended up becoming cheerleaders, marrying the captain of the football team, having at least 6 kids by the time they were 20, getting divorced by 30 because hubby was fucking his secrettary, then regretting the hell out of all of it and wondering how their lives might have been different if they had attended to THEIR life instead of trying to fuck with every one else's.

Life imitates childhood. Not much has changed from what I can see. The children are still children. The games are still the games. And the playground has simply evolved from swingsets to cyberspace.

So, as you said of yourself, I now focus my energies entirely on my own pursuits with the knowledge that children will be children, and I'm not the mama. It's good to be free. And it's great to be involved with the dreaming group and the private list - people who actually have something to bring to the table in the form of their own experiences and their own unique knowledge. It's not just a breath of fresh air, it's a whole new world! Thanks for your part in helping me see that!

I'm not sure if the belief that people don't like you is a predilection - more like a belief system, I think, or perhaps the result of long-term observation. Maybe people don't like you - nothing wrong with that. *heh* I suffer from that condition myself to a large extent, but I don't see it as a predilection for a lot of reasons. When people don't like us, it's usually because we remind them of something about themselves that they don't like (i.e., we are a mirror); or because we are off-putting in some way (intentional or unintentional), or some combination of both.

Just to give you an example, in my case people often don't like me because I won't join in their cliques. I won't agree to their agreements. And I won't be "one of the guys" if that means I have to abdicate being who I AM. Reminds me of "the emperor's new clothes" - where everybody stands around pretending to admire the emperor's new clothes, and one kid says, "Yebbut, he's naked!" If you're the one who sees the emperor naked, chances are those who are standing around being admirers aren't going to like you much, because you threaten their status quo and may actually be a danger to them because the emperor might decide to lob off their heads for lying to him.

So, in that regard, perhaps you have a predilection (as I do) to go against the grain of the consensual agreement, which might occasionally (often?) earn the disapproval of the sheeple, and THAT can create the belief system that people don't like you. That's how it seems for me anyway...

Re smoking... I smoked for 22 years, then quit cold turkey one day because I realized I was clinging to a filthy habit because I was of the belief that I didn't have the strength to quit. So I intentionally set out to prove myself wrong and just did it. I smoked my last cigarette in October of 1994, with great awareness that it would be THE LAST ONE. It's been 15 years and I've never been even remotely tempted to go back to it.

Did I have a predilection to smoke? I don't think so. Most things that people try to pass off as predilections are really just bad choices - like it was my bad choice to start smoking when I was 16. Dumfuk teenage behaviour with lifelong consequences. Not a predilection at all.

To me, a real predilection is more like what I was saying to Dustin in another post. Some people have a predilection to form lasting relationships, while others are more comfortable with intermittent friendships or relationships that may last only a few months. Also, re don Juan, Carlos had a predilection to be melancholy & brooding, whereas don Juan's predilection was to laugh. Neither is better or worse, per se, as long as we have the awareness of our nature.

Sometimes I've wondered if our predilections MIGHT be the result of our programming. I know someone who claims he has a predilection to be essentially an asshole, and another one who claims she has the predilection to be a tree hugger. *LOL* We can't really know if these are predilections or just the result of some sort of programming that may have occurred in early childhood - or if, in fact, they are just choices these individuals have made because it is their personal 'indulgence'.

Can we change our predilections? Sure, with awareness. We may still have the predilection as part of our genetic or social programming, but we can choose to make other choices,rather than just succumbing to our nature because it's easier than rising above it. In fact, that was don Juan's point in making CC aware of his own predilections - so that he could STOP indulging them and create a different response, to stop being melancholy as a "default" setting, because clearly that default setting was not healthy for CC or anyone else.

Just some rambling thoughts... fwiw.

D

Look at it this way. If they weren't so busy fucking with YOU, they'd have to get a life. It's always simpler to blame you for their miserable existence than to take responsibility for it, so write 'em off and leave 'em twisting in the wind trying to agree on some agreement so they can have their safe little consensus. That's what I've always thought is really weird - the gang mentality that exists in forums and chatrooms that are supposed to be about breaking out of consensuses and agreements. Not your problem or mine. Why they care so much about you is what's interesting. Guess you're all they have and they're hanging on for dear life. Suggest you cut the line and let 'em drown. Rabid dogs can't be cured.

Oh, not to worry. They drowned a long time ago - they just haven't figured it out yet, so their restless spirits still thrash, believing they still have substance.

yeh i think a lot of things like that are just thoughts we cultivate more than others, like it's not really a deep belief that you should smoke it's just that you had the thought, and made that though manifest - and sure the first time you take drag is pretty bad - but the power of thought is strong, and just takes over. the more you think about it, the more you do it.

that's why i liked what della said a while back, imagine it like a movement of the assemblage point to a place where you 'don't care', because the old human way is to just try to suppress your negative desires or beliefs. in the end - the mental barriers you build are always overcome, because they never existed to begin with. so it's more like a movement than a suppression.

that point hammered home that truth for me about the power of our thoughts. that's why we have to spend so much time taming our 'minds' so that our thoughts become louder and more economical.

because a thought is the beginning of an action. so when i deconstruct things like 'smoking' in my own life, i aim to move to that place where i'm not supressing the thought, neither am i giving it the possibility of occurring, if that's what i want - it's all a matter of regaining control in the end, not necessarily freedom?

yeh sorry, forgot, cos the way you control negative behaviour is like della said - through awareness. the more you become aware, and the more you attempt to control the behaviour by moving to the place of not caring (neutrality), this causes the thought of 'smoking' or whatever to come up less and less often, until you finally managed to convince that thought that you're not going to act upon it any more. it loses it's power to control you.

Pssst. Hey, D...

The kids next door are onto us. Oh me oh my! Seems like they're worried because they think we're reading their posts and that seems to bother One of Them to a large extent. He's griping that we read his posts, but the only way he would know that would be if he's sneaking over here reading ours, so I'm not sure what he's griping about except it seems to be his predilection to throw stones at you for whatever he thinks you did to him in his past life somewhere back in the dark ages. Guess you 'broke his heart', but that would be sorta difficult, since I didn't think rocks could break. Maybe he just can't overcome that stone-throwing predilection so he's quoting Mark Twain now, thumping that bible in addition to CC and a bunch of others? Wasn't Mark Twain your cousin or something? Or was that Satan? heh heh.

The Other One is now laying out word maps and made up rules about apprentices and journeymen as if he has some special set of rules he's made up that are laid out in such a way as to imply he thinks you're a fraud. heh. Funny that. Maybe it just hasn't occurred to him that the knowledge is right in front of him and always has been and he just doesn't have what it takes to take it in because he's always so busy trying to push it away so he can hold onto his little world or his guru (who he was trying to sell to me again the other day, btw). What I see as ironical about these two is that they both seem to enjoy tearing into you but neither of them has ever done one thing I can see to help anybody else along, even a kind word. I don't see any websites or books coming out of either of them. I don't see anything positive either of them ever has to say. Just the endless negative bullshit that belongs on playgrounds or on bathroom walls. But they're the world's leading authority on spirituality, Della, Castaneda, and now Satan and Mark Twain. Just ask em!

As Global Moderator here at TSW, I'm playing with the idea of taking this thread behind closed doors so as not to upset the neighbors. Seems they don't like what they're seeing when they peek in with those binoculars through our open windows and it's making them cranky and restless. Then again... if we close the curtains it'll only drive 'em crazier and they might lose sleep wondering what's going on that they can't see. They might think we're talking about 'em. That would just be awful. Just awful! Then again, it would be a short conversation since there's not much to talk about and that's probably what's really bugging them. Just not much substance there.

What do you think? Wanna take their binoculars away or just go on putting on a show for 'em to keep them distracted from their own journey? They have made you their personal demon and I'm jealous because I'm the one who stirred their potty this time. Damn. You get all the attention. I think you're in league with the devil and have stolen their souls, because they can't seem to focus on anything else. Did I say I'm jealous?

MM

PS - forgot to mention... The other day when I was talking to the neighbor in chat he suggested that you and he should 'start another fight' in order to promote forum activity.

I think that was very revealing as to the mindset present over at the neighbors' house.

Looks to me like he used certain comments I made to intentionally stir up the google guru - so he's manipulating his own forum members just to facilitate his own entertainment. heh. Where I'm from, we call that an energy vampire, somebody who doesn't give a rat's ass about anything other than creating drama so they can then sit back and feed on it.

There are some good lessons to be learned here. (Got garlic?)

Somewhere in the distant past, I was allegedly related to Mark Twain, aka Samuel Clemens. Don't know the exact connection, never much cared, since bloodlines are rather like broken hearts: not worth much other than bragging rights. Pffft. Re Satan... I have been compared to him by many people over the years. I keep horns and a tail in the closet for special occasions.



They seem to be operating under the delusion that I want them to 'believe' something - which is pretty silly, since I would have nothing to gain by whatever they believe or don't believe. So I can only assume they are stuck in some self-perpetuating agreement, and the best thing either of them could do would be to step back and seriously examine what they think I would possibly have to gain by their belief. Absolutely nothing. I figured out a long time ago that creating a consensus is just one more agreement, and... well... what good are agreements in the big picture? Just anchors dragging us down. So if someone wants to believe I'm the devil, I'll take the horns & tail out of mothballs and put on a show for them. If they want to believe I want them to believe something. Well... not much I can do about that except tilt my head sideways and wonder what agreement has been formed that would produce such ludicrous conclusions.



Do whatever you want, Mel. I'm more or less so involved in other things at the moment that I don't have the time or energy to devote to the foolish machinations of children. It's why I never had any. *heh*



Understand this, Mel: I am the star, the central focus, the great leader & teacher and there is no other. You cannot compete! *cackle* Yeah. Right. Truth be told: this whole ugly mess has been going on far too long because of the attempted energy hooks and false attachments. I divorced myself from it completely and have moved on into other interests. The internet is a wasteland of punks and drunks, jokers and losers, trolls and twats. Any real spiritual growth that happens will happen alone - just you, yourself and maybe your double, in the dark night of the soul. Alone. I used to think there was room on the internet for people to share ideas and work together on various techniques, but after dealing with this particular group of juvenile delinquents for the past few years, I've amended my thinking, and have taken anything of consequence into the private list or the dreaming group. I have maintained the forum as a "meeting place" primarily, and since the bill is paid through the end of this year, I will probably allow it to continue, though my participation will be minimal at best due to the demands on my time from my other current pursuits.

So, if you want to take any of it or all of it behind closed doors, I'll leave that up to you. And that includes if you should decide you don't want the responsibility of keeping it going (which I wouldn't blame you). Frankly, the mudslides and shitfalls from the trolls make it not at all worth the effort. That's my opinion - admittedly after 8 years, and having become jaded by the hate and anger and ugliness. So if you choose to shut it down, just let me know and I'll give you the admin codes to proceed. I think the final straw was receiving a death threat last week. Just ain't worth it, Mel. Like I've said from the start, these forums were something I started for my own foundational assimilation, and that work was largely completed more than 3 years ago. Sure, everything is always an ongoing process, but I've come to think that anybody who hangs out on a forum for more than a couple of years is probably just indulging - or as you said, needs to get a life. *LOL* So... I've kept the forums as a habit more than a need, with the intent of creating a cyber sanctuary where others could come and share their experiences, but at this point... ??? Do as you will. And thanks for taking on the task of global moderator.

Here ya go.